guitar_freak22
Jul 26 2006, 09:20 AM
What do you guys think about the String Theory? I do not know really where to begin. I do not think such a small amount of energy could possibly exist on a scale that small. How could one tiny string influence the way we move our bodies? Or how we think?
Here is a link to wikipedia to learn more about the string theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Searc...e+string+theory-EDIT-
Also, I would be interested in finding the other eight dimensions. It might make the tesseract possible.
Mynck
Jul 26 2006, 09:48 AM
Heh. String theory. Too complicated for me.
-----Edit-----
Then again, after reading through the article, particles as strings does make more sense than particles as points.
Humpster
Jul 26 2006, 09:57 AM
I didn't understand much, but it confused and frightend me...
Duckie
Jul 26 2006, 06:19 PM
Isn't the idea that all the dimensions still exist simultaneously, we simply can't comprehend them...?
Mynck
Jul 26 2006, 06:22 PM
QUOTE(Duckie @ Jul 26 2006, 06:19 PM)
Isn't the idea that all the dimensions still exist simultaneously, we simply can't comprehend them...?

I don't get what you mean. As opposed to what?
Duckie
Jul 26 2006, 07:06 PM
As opposed to finding them...
Mynck
Jul 26 2006, 08:02 PM
But what did you mean "all dimensions exist simultaneously?"
guitar_freak22
Jul 26 2006, 08:05 PM
QUOTE(Duckie @ Jul 26 2006, 10:06 PM)
As opposed to finding them...
We have to find them because we may live on a "brane" that is not connected to the other dimensions.
Mynck
Jul 26 2006, 08:11 PM
Or the other dimensions are really small and loop back on themselves.
guitar_freak22
Jul 26 2006, 08:17 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Jul 26 2006, 11:10 PM)
Or the other dimensions are really small and loop back on themselves.
I think one of the dimensions is time travel. But it isn't really time travel. It is using a wormhole. Tearing-open space. Follow me for a minute:
If you could use a wormhole to travel, say, to Pluto, which is normally around 5 hours lightspeed, what would happen? If you took two trips, one by lightspeed and one by a wormhole, and you went through lightspeed first, then took the wormhole, would you meet yourself?
Mynck
Jul 26 2006, 08:19 PM
Eh, I think wormholes are impossible. It'd cause logical paradoxes if they did exist.
guitar_freak22
Jul 27 2006, 06:13 AM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Jul 26 2006, 11:19 PM)
Eh, I think wormholes are impossible. It'd cause logical paradoxes if they did exist.
See, that is all we know. With the other dimensions, who knows what's possible? And how would it be a paradox?
lappy512
Jul 27 2006, 06:50 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Jul 26 2006, 08:19 PM)
Eh, I think wormholes are impossible. It'd cause logical paradoxes if they did exist.
What about time travel?
guitar_freak22
Jul 27 2006, 07:07 PM
QUOTE(lappy512 @ Jul 27 2006, 09:49 PM)
A good question. Is time travel itself a paradox? What happens when you meet yourself? I had a theory on how one could travel through time...Physics and quantum mechanics are very interesting subject to me.
lappy512
Jul 27 2006, 08:05 PM
QUOTE(guitar_freak22 @ Jul 26 2006, 08:16 PM)
I think one of the dimensions is time travel. But it isn't really time travel. It is using a wormhole. Tearing-open space. Follow me for a minute:
If you could use a wormhole to travel, say, to Pluto, which is normally around 5 hours lightspeed, what would happen? If you took two trips, one by lightspeed and one by a wormhole, and you went through lightspeed first, then took the wormhole, would you meet yourself?
I didn't get that.
What?
Okay, I'm at earth. I travel lightspeed to pluto. Then I go back in a wormhole, back to earth. How would i meet myself? Not to mention that earth has aged billions of years due to relativity.
Mynck
Jul 27 2006, 09:00 PM
Time travel is itself a paradox. You go back and kill yourself, by all means possible, except that you've created a paradox where the killer doesn't exist after killing his/herself.
Well, wormholes could be possible I guess, but time travel is impossible if you're expecting to end up in the same universe you started out in.
Duckie
Jul 27 2006, 09:26 PM
I'm not sure time travel such as you've stated is possible, but certainly science has stated that time and speed are inversely related, so the closer you approach the speed of light, the slower time goes... but since nothing goes faster than light, you cant make time go backwards.
lappy512
Jul 27 2006, 09:33 PM
QUOTE(Duckie @ Jul 27 2006, 09:25 PM)
I'm not sure time travel such as you've stated is possible, but certainly science has stated that time and speed are inversely related, so the closer you approach the speed of light, the slower time goes... but since nothing goes faster than light, you cant make time go backwards.
But of course, if there is antimatter, than antimatter would be able to to very weird (maybe high) speeds.
v = sqrt(2KE/m)
Because light has no mass, then:
v = sqrt(2KE/0)
Which would be undefined, however, the limit is lightspeed.
However, what if you had a negitave mass? (antimatter)
v = sqrt(2KE/-m)
The velocity would be imaginary.
Wait, I just confuzzled myself.
Mynck
Jul 27 2006, 09:44 PM
You can't have a negative mass.
Anti-matter has the same mass as normal matter. Else things would be very screw-wed.
-----Edit-----
Details from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antiparticle#...f_antiparticlesVery confusing... but however they figure it out, antiparticles are opposite in electric charge, but not in mass or spin.
ShammyKon
Jul 27 2006, 10:20 PM
QUOTE(guitar_freak22 @ Jul 26 2006, 09:19 AM)
What do you guys think about the String Theory? I do not know really where to begin. I do not think such a small amount of energy could possibly exist on a scale that small. How could one tiny string influence the way we move our bodies? Or how we think?
Here is a link to wikipedia to learn more about the string theory:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Searc...e+string+theory-EDIT-
Also, I would be interested in finding the other eight dimensions. It might make the tesseract possible.
I watched the Elegant universe, great movie on that!
guitar_freak22
Jul 28 2006, 05:26 AM
QUOTE(lappy512 @ Jul 27 2006, 11:05 PM)
I didn't get that.
What?
Okay, I'm at earth. I travel lightspeed to pluto. Then I go back in a wormhole, back to earth. How would i meet myself? Not to mention that earth has aged billions of years due to relativity.
You know what, I don't get it either. And I'm the one who typed it. Well, let's forget that I said that. I think I need to read up on it some more...
Duckie
Jul 28 2006, 11:25 AM
I think that the elegant universe from Nova explains string theory very well
Shivaji recomends that you watch it online here
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/program.html
guitar_freak22
Jul 28 2006, 11:40 AM
QUOTE(Duckie @ Jul 28 2006, 02:25 PM)
Shivaji recomends that you watch it online here
Who is "Shivaji?" Or are you referring to yourself in third-person?
ShammyKon
Jul 28 2006, 11:45 AM
QUOTE(guitar_freak22 @ Jul 28 2006, 11:40 AM)
Who is "Shivaji?" Or are you referring to yourself in third-person?
YOu need to just go buy the DVD on it. it is a 2 parter, and very repetitive. But it is still worth the buy!
guitar_freak22
Jul 28 2006, 11:50 AM
QUOTE(ShammyKon @ Jul 28 2006, 02:45 PM)
YOu need to just go buy the DVD on it. it is a 2 parter, and very repetitive. But it is still worth the buy!
Shivaji is a movie?
RonPrice
Jul 29 2006, 05:05 PM
I take a serious interest in the humanities and social sciences--them's alot of disciplines. Physics, chemistry and the biological sciences are my wife's domain. I will pass your email on to her and thank you for your encouragement. I have read somethings about string theory, seen two docos on TV but my opinions would not be as valuable as some of the many experts in the field, people with a background in physics. Thanking you again.-Ron Price, Tasmania
guitar_freak22
Aug 1 2006, 03:27 PM
QUOTE(RonPrice @ Jul 29 2006, 08:04 PM)
I take a serious interest in the humanities and social sciences--them's alot of disciplines. Physics, chemistry and the biological sciences are my wife's domain. I will pass your email on to her and thank you for your encouragement. I have read somethings about string theory, seen two docos on TV but my opinions would not be as valuable as some of the many experts in the field, people with a background in physics. Thanking you again.-Ron Price, Tasmania

It's ok to give your opinion even though you are not an expert. Do you think we are experts? We gave our opinions anyway.
Herloss
Aug 1 2006, 03:39 PM
Here's an interesting animation explaining the 10 dimentions.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.phpMouse over to the left where it says "Navigation" and then click "Imagining the Ten Dimentions" in the list that pops out.
Timebandit
Aug 1 2006, 03:53 PM
QUOTE(Herloss @ Aug 1 2006, 03:39 PM)
Here's an interesting animation explaining the 10 dimentions.
http://www.tenthdimension.com/flash2.phpMouse over to the left where it says "Navigation" and then click "Imagining the Ten Dimentions" in the list that pops out.
wow, great find. i watched the whole thing. if i didnt see that, i never would of know past the 5th dimension.
Mynck
Aug 1 2006, 04:09 PM
Wow, that was mind-boggling. Some things I don't quite agree with, though. It described that you could fold the fourth dimension, time, though a higher-level dimension, and meet yourself in the past or future. I can't imagine time as a spacial dimension. With time, there is causuality. Things in the past cause things in the future. That doesn't happen with any spacial dimension as far as I know. And if that analogy really applied, you'd be able to fold time through the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimension. If you think about a line with only depth (3rd dimension), no length (1st) or width (2nd), you can still fold it through the 1st or 2nd dimensions. If time is a line in the 4th dimension, and it's possible to fold it, then why can't we fold it from the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimensions?
Point: Don't rely on this as an absolute guide.
There could also be smaller dimensions that we can't perceive because they loop back on themselves and are so small. Imagine a garden hose. Maybe there's an ant inside it. From a huge scale or far away, it looks like a line--one dimension that the ant can move through. But if you get closer and smaller, it turns out that the ant can actually crawl to the sides of the garden hose, maybe in a helix shape or something. Yeah, like that.
Herloss
Aug 1 2006, 04:15 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 1 2006, 08:09 PM)
Wow, that was mind-boggling. Some things I don't quite agree with, though. It described that you could fold the fourth dimension, time, though a higher-level dimension, and meet yourself in the past or future. I can't imagine time as a spacial dimension. With time, there is causuality. Things in the past cause things in the future. That doesn't happen with any spacial dimension as far as I know. And if that analogy really applied, you'd be able to fold time through the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimension. If you think about a line with only depth (3rd dimension), no length (1st) or width (2nd), you can still fold it through the 1st or 2nd dimensions. If time is a line in the 4th dimension, and it's possible to fold it, then why can't we fold it from the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimensions?
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at... folding a dimention through a lower dimention? I dont see how that's possible. You can only fold a dimention through the dimention above.
QUOTE
There could also be smaller dimensions that we can't perceive because they loop back on themselves and are so small. Imagine a garden hose. Maybe there's an ant inside it. From a huge scale or far away, it looks like a line--one dimension that the ant can move through. But if you get closer and smaller, it turns out that the ant can actually crawl to the sides of the garden hose, maybe in a helix shape or something. Yeah, like that.
A hose would just be in the third dimention. It may look like a 2D object from a distance, but it's still just a 3D object.
Timebandit
Aug 1 2006, 04:24 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 1 2006, 04:09 PM)
Wow, that was mind-boggling. Some things I don't quite agree with, though. It described that you could fold the fourth dimension, time, though a higher-level dimension, and meet yourself in the past or future. I can't imagine time as a spacial dimension. With time, there is causuality. Things in the past cause things in the future. That doesn't happen with any spacial dimension as far as I know. And if that analogy really applied, you'd be able to fold time through the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimension. If you think about a line with only depth (3rd dimension), no length (1st) or width (2nd), you can still fold it through the 1st or 2nd dimensions. If time is a line in the 4th dimension, and it's possible to fold it, then why can't we fold it from the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd dimensions?
Point: Don't rely on this as an absolute guide.
There could also be smaller dimensions that we can't perceive because they loop back on themselves and are so small. Imagine a garden hose. Maybe there's an ant inside it. From a huge scale or far away, it looks like a line--one dimension that the ant can move through. But if you get closer and smaller, it turns out that the ant can actually crawl to the sides of the garden hose, maybe in a helix shape or something. Yeah, like that.
i think your getting at things that happen in the past effect things that happen in the future.
Mynck
Aug 1 2006, 04:28 PM
QUOTE(Herloss @ Aug 1 2006, 04:15 PM)
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at... folding a dimention through a lower dimention? I dont see how that's possible. You can only fold a dimention through the dimention above.
Well imagine a three-dimensional coordinate system. With the 3 axes and everything. Can we really say which dimension is lower or higher than any other? Then again, never mind. I see my argument is flawed. Well, just ignore that part then. Folding time still completely messes up causation.
QUOTE
A hose would just be in the third dimention. It may look like a 2D object from a distance, but it's still just a 3D object.
Okay, then replace the hose with a cylinder-shaped plane.
Herloss
Aug 1 2006, 04:35 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 1 2006, 08:28 PM)
Well imagine a three-dimensional coordinate system. With the 3 axes and everything. Can we really say which dimension is lower or higher than any other? Then again, never mind. I see my argument is flawed. Well, just ignore that part then. Folding time still completely messes up causation.
Okay, then replace the hose with a cylinder-shaped plane.
A cylinder is a 2D plane folded through the 3rd.
Mynck
Aug 1 2006, 05:47 PM
Eh... then... oh gosh this is really abstract. So... imagine a line. This represents a dimension. It appears one-dimensional, but there are actually two dimensions. It has a tiny width, but no sides. If something travels through the direction of the width, it travels a tiny subatomic, even subnucleonic, distance before getting right back where it started.
This is a tiny dimension that loops back on itself.
Herloss
Aug 1 2006, 06:03 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 1 2006, 09:47 PM)
Eh... then... oh gosh this is really abstract. So... imagine a line. This represents a dimension. It appears one-dimensional, but there are actually two dimensions. It has a tiny width, but no sides. If something travels through the direction of the width, it travels a tiny subatomic, even subnucleonic, distance before getting right back where it started.
This is a tiny dimension that loops back on itself.
If it has width, any width, it becomes 2 dimentional. If you can travel around it, you are bending it through the 3rd, and the object becomes 3 dimentional. When you imagine a line, realisticly, you should not be imagining anything. Lines dont really exist. They can not be accuratly portrayed in an image. You should be imagining two points, and the line is between those two points, but isnt. Really, you shouldnt even be imagining points, you should be imagining blank space, with dots that
represent points, and long, skinny rectangles that
represent lines. The points and the lines are nonexistant. They are just concepts. That's what I'm trying to get at.
Timebandit
Aug 1 2006, 07:16 PM
were living in the 3rd dimension. everytings 3 dementional, even a playing cars. everything has with hight and depth. no matter how small the with hight or depth. everything has all 3 of those.
Mynck
Aug 1 2006, 08:15 PM
QUOTE(Timebandit @ Aug 1 2006, 07:16 PM)
were living in the 3rd dimension. everytings 3 dementional, even a playing cars. everything has with hight and depth. no matter how small the with hight or depth. everything has all 3 of those.
A shadow.
Think about that one.
Herloss
Aug 1 2006, 08:18 PM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 2 2006, 12:14 AM)
A shadow.
Think about that one.
Depends on what the shadow is being cast upon.
Timebandit
Aug 2 2006, 07:58 AM
QUOTE(Mynck @ Aug 1 2006, 08:14 PM)
A shadow.
Think about that one.
a shadow isnt an object you can touch, feel or pick up. its not "real" its just a cast of light.
Mynck
Aug 2 2006, 08:47 AM
"everything" includes shadows.
Timebandit
Aug 2 2006, 09:12 AM
but a shadow is a 2d "thing" in a 3d world. and that cant happen. accually, i think you stumped me there.
Mynck
Aug 2 2006, 09:37 AM
Eh... whatever, this is too hard.
Herloss
Aug 2 2006, 09:46 AM
This article is a pretty good read, if you're interested in this kinda stuff.
http://home.flash.net/~csmith0/theryall.htmI'm a stumble-aholic or something...
Timebandit
Aug 2 2006, 10:20 AM
wow, another great find.
Mynck
Aug 2 2006, 10:48 AM
Very nice find. This guy's really good at making slivers of theoretical physics understandable to us non-theoretical-physicists.
guitar_freak22
Aug 2 2006, 01:43 PM
QUOTE(Herloss @ Aug 1 2006, 07:15 PM)
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at... folding a dimention through a lower dimention? I dont see how that's possible. You can only fold a dimention through the dimention above.
A hose would just be in the third dimention. It may look like a 2D object from a distance, but it's still just a 3D object.
Urrrghhhhh...I do not know if there is a different spelling of "dimension" where you live, but that is irritating me. So if you can only fold a dimension through the dimension above, Mynck's theory is wrong about folding space through the first three dimensions. That is why we cannot time travel because we cannot enter a dimension like the fifth that loops back on itsself. If we could, how would we?
Herloss
Aug 2 2006, 01:59 PM
QUOTE(guitar_freak22 @ Aug 2 2006, 05:42 PM)
Urrrghhhhh...I do not know if there is a different spelling of "dimension" where you live, but that is irritating me.
Eat a bag of dicks.
Mynck
Aug 2 2006, 03:58 PM
QUOTE(guitar_freak22 @ Aug 2 2006, 01:42 PM)
So if you can only fold a dimension through the dimension above, Mynck's theory is wrong about folding space through the first three dimensions. That is why we cannot time travel because we cannot enter a dimension like the fifth that loops back on itsself. If we could, how would we?
My point was that time travel is impossible.
Timebandit
Aug 2 2006, 04:58 PM
well, if we can get hold of the 4th dimension, yes it is.
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